I still have vivid memories of the evening I met Monique over ten years ago. She waltzed into our bible study, on the invitation of her twin sister, Michelle, with her voluminous hair the perfect complement to her charisma and spirited personality. She opened up to me with honesty, unabashedly talking about the condition and nature of her relationship to John, a married man she was living in with, with whom she had a one year old daughter.
At some point in the evening, there arose in me a strong impression to present to Monique the biblical viewpoint on her relationship. Looking back, there may have been a gentler way to put it. But as a young bible study leader, a rookie at dealing with colorful and complicated counseling situations, I showed her a passage in Scripture that exposed her adultery. I also admonished her to stop living in with John. Monique didn’t defend herself. In fact she sincerely pondered upon the exchange we had. I wasn’t sure if I would see her again after I showed her the bible verses and made that statement about adultery.
However, Monique continued to attend our meetings even while she remained in a relationship with John. On the one hand, she sincerely expressed interest in spiritual matters. Yet she found herself bound to John in a manner that was almost too complex to walk away from overnight. Not only did they share a child and a home, they were business partners. Furthermore, she was friends with John’s wife and acted like a mom to his first child.
In her attempt to find convergence, she brought John to one of the bible studies that Edric was leading. John interpreted this move as a big set-up. He locked himself in the bathroom with his laptop for two hours! Back then, we knew John pretty much disdained us for encouraging Monique to stop sleeping with him.
Not too long after, Monique had a second child with John. With tears she confessed to our bible study group that she was pregnant. Yet the most heartbreaking part was Monique’s discovery of John’s betrayal. He had been cheating on her with multiple women.
In pain and completely lost, Monique finally understood that Jesus Christ was the only one who could save her from her brokenness. The love and security she sought in her relationships with men could not be satiated by anyone except Christ. With complete surrender, she gave her life to the Lord.
As difficult as it was, she moved out of John’s home and committed to guard her sexual purity. It wasn’t a perfect journey but her decision to give up John had a profound impact on her spiritual life.
At the same time, the Lord began to move in John’s heart. Tired of his lifestyle and sexual addiction (he professed to have slept with over 50 women), and jolted back to reality when he lost Monique’s trust, John earnestly sought to reform his ways. He told Monique that she shouldn’t be with him because he was a sick person — spiritually and emotionally. Monique’s response to him was you need to seek Jesus.
As Monique took steps to avoid immorality and grow in her faith, she chose to forgive John, which was compelling evidence for her spiritual transformation. Furthermore, she forgave the women whom John cheated on her with. As a result, John chose to give his life to Jesus Christ, surrendering to His grace. He began growing spiritually in a discipleship group with other men under Roli Sabado.
Eventually, John also started coming to our bible studies faithfully. A genuine desire to grow in his faith marked his conversion. There were a lot of periphery issues that both he and Monique had to sort through but God plucked ungodly behaviors, attitudes, and perspectives out of them like straight pins being pulled off a pin cushion. Then he filled the holes with renewed thinking and the pursuit of holiness and wholeness in Christ.
However, the reality of their scrambled egg situation remained. At this point, John and his first wife were annulled and she was in a serious relationship with another man whom she intended to marry. He had two kids with Monique but he wasn’t married to her, and they couldn’t live in together. The most honorable recourse was to marry Monique so they could be a family.
Serving together in Before and After I Do
Today, John and Monique Ong actively serve as an integral part of the CCF Family Ministry Team, contributing their expertise as business people in events, photography, and videography. They are homeschooling parents with a brood of five. They also hold weekly community worship services in their company building every Wednesday night. More importantly, their journey to Christ and the broken road that God fixed to get them there is an amazing testimony of His grace.
Some years ago I narrow-mindedly told Monique that there may be limitations to the scope of their ministry. Since John came from an annulled marriage, I thought this would be a contradiction to their desire to help people stay committed to their marriages. However, as I listened to them testify during the Before and After I Do Seminar, I realized my perceptions of their ministry’s reach had put God in a box.
The reality is John and Monique represent the truth about all of us. We are lost and scrambled apart from Christ — a mix of wrong choices, worldly thinking and philosophies, weary from the pain, the addictions to sin, the drive for success, money, or fame, burdened by the façades we try to manage and the chasing after the ever-elusive joy and peace that cannot be had apart from Him. John and Monique’s story also tells us that God meets us where we are at, as the messy scrambled eggs that we are, and He wants to make us whole. He CAN make us whole! He has a plan for us that is beyond what we can ever dream or imagine…
“But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY. Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul. Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.” (1 Peter 2:9-12 NASB)
People rarely identify with those who look like perfect eggs which is why John and Monique are especially effective as portraits of God’s love and forgiveness. As John and Monique stood before the crowd with honesty and humility about the mess they used to be, they overflowed with God’s amazing grace. I knew about their faith journey before hearing them talk so openly about it in front of the 800 men and women who attended the seminar. But to recall the people they once were when we met them, and to see the fruit of their lives that day was just WOW! Wow to the God who does the impossible and the inconceivable, who takes a sexual addict and makes him a holy, committed husband…who takes an adulterous woman and makes her honorable, healing her broken heart, and making her more beautiful inside and out!
No life, no scrambled egg is beyond the reach or redeeming power of God’s grace. When we receive His forgiveness and come into a relationship with Him through Jesus, His Son, repenting from our sins and surrendering ourselves to Him, He gives us a new beginning. We receive peace and joy in the present, hope for the future, and a story to tell about our past that brings glory to His name.
“Bless the LORD, O my soul, And forget none of His benefits; Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases; Who redeems your life from the pit, Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion; He has not dealt with us according to our sins, Nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, So great is His lovingkindness toward those who fear Him. As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us.”(Psalms 103:2-4, 10-12 NASB)
Tomorrow, John and Monique will share their story at our church, CCF, at the 9am and 12 noon services. If you have friends or family who need hope and encouragement, invite them and come along, too! You will be blessed!
what an amazing story and how God can use us if we just let Him do what He want us to do for His glory.
Good job Joy.
During our wedding, To Edric & Joy’s disbelief, they agreed to be our ninong & ninang. Thank you for everything… there is no greater fulfillment than to know you’re being used by the master.
So wife and concubine – I wonder whether you people know the difference between a wife and concubine? You see Solomon, the old book says that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines… no one is feeling sorry for Solomon . So there must be a diff between a wife and concubine, that’s what the Christians says. You see Hagar and Sarah – Abraham had 2 wives the Christians say, Sarah and Hagar. Sarah was his legitimate wife.. legal wife. Hagar was a concubine, a bond woman, a slave woman. That’s what the Christians say. But now Moses was inspired to write (if he was inspired) Genesis 25:01 Abraham again took a wife (W.I.F.E. = wife), and her name was Keturah. Moses was writing (if he wrote it) he said a wife, i.e. the 3rd wife Keturah. But in the book of 1 Chronicles 1:32 says Now, the sons born to Keturah, Abraham’s concubine… are they synonymous terms wife & concubine? I read this from a Christian magazine called “The Plain Truth” October 1977. It say’s reading bible stories to children can also open up of all sorts of opportunities to discuss the morality of SEX. And an espagated bible might get an “X” rating (not fit for children to see) from some censors. Believe me a Christian magazine wrote this. Which means as George Bernard Shaw says that the bible is the MOST DANGEROUS BOOK ON EARTH. He said KEEP IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY, YOUR CHILDREN MUST NOT HAVE ACCESS TO IT. Go verify it for yourself whether this statement of GBS is true or not. I give you little sample from the “so called” book of God. Book of Judges 16:01 “Then Samson the Jew went to Gaza (in West Bank palestine) and saw a Harlot, a prostitute, a whore, or in Pilipino we call it “pokpok” call girls and what & what not ahuh.. there and he (Samson) went in unto her. He had sex with her. Hurrry!!!.. can you imagine in a book of God this guy here Samson you know like hero to so many people bible readers Samson and Delilah.. and what punishment? No punishment. It’s glorified in a book of God. What does it serve? Dr. Burnham Jones an American Psychologist carried experiment of group of school children to whom certain stories will be read and these stories made a certain slight but permanent changes in character even in a narrow classroom situations. You tell stories to children about anything.. you’re programming the child by the stories you tell. Anything. So whatever you feed them with.. SEX, RAPE, MURDER, INCEST! Ssshhhhh… you’re programming the people as soon as they get opportunity they’ll going to do what they’ve been reading. We are what we eat and We are what we read.. for whatever type of literature you read some are just plain filth and readily available in the market 😛 😛
HI Facundo! I’m sure Joy will have a response to this but let me give my two cents. Often, people take bits and pieces of the Bible, and take it out of context. Sure, the men God chose to use for His glory in Bible times were not at all without flaws. But to say that “no one is feeling sorry for Solomon” is largely inaccurate – the part where he married 700 women and kept 300 concubines is actually what triggered his downfall (1 Kings 11:9-10). The consequence being a tainted relationship with the God who gave him everything he had. The evidence of this is the book of Ecclesiastes, where he lamented about the vanity of all earthly desires. It’s not just Solomon but David, Abraham and Samson – all the men you named here – all suffered consequences for having concubines and marrying the wrong women. Have you read about the dysfunctional family of David? It all begun when he committed adultery with Bathsheba. Did you read the part where Abraham had to let his first son Ishmael go? He did it for the son God promised to him (Isaac). Did you read the part where Samson was bound and taken to captivity and lost his sight and died in the rubbles? It was because he chose to marry from a people he was not supposed to. These deeply flawed men had to suffer for their sins. They are not “heroes”, they are human beings like you and I who surrendered themselves to the hands and workings of the God who can make something great out of the filth.
This is where the grace of God flows and begins. He uses whomever He wishes to use to accomplish His will. (Of course, His will is subject to another discussion, but the only thing you need to know right now is that His will is perfect and good.)
And oh, the Bible is only dangerous to those who are blind to the truth. When you actually read through it (with the right theology and a ready heart), you would find that it’s a book of light and life.
Hi Dani
Thanks for your comment. You’re quoting the book of Kings. But it says UNKNOWN AUTHOR. Who wrote it? It says UNKNOWN. How can you believe it when the author is unknown?
I believe the Bible, in its entirety. I believe that the book of Kings is an integral part of the Bible. I believe the Bible as the Word of God. Whoever God used to put it together and however it so happened, is beyond me and is bigger than me. I still choose to believe it because I’ve read it, and I’ve seen no need to add to it or change anything about it. Other people like to play logic when discussing spiritual things. I’ve been in a place of doubt myself too, I’ve tried to think like the world too (sadly, sometimes I STILL do), and you know what, I’ve found that there is nothing more logical than the reality of God and the truth of His word.
I wish you all the best, Facundo! Faith is a personal matter, and I can only pray that God reveals Himself to you in the most personal way. 😀
So Dani you’re saying you’re a fundamentalist.. and I like that, it means you read and belive the bible in its entirety. But you see your bible scholars of the highest immenince they’re telling you this are anonymous books!! Have you heard about the blind sheep mentality? So I want to know what Jesus said, I love Him, I respect Him and I revered HIm. Jesus said NOT this supposed idea that you just believe, He said “verily verily I say unto you, unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and the pharasees , you shall be no means enter Heaven.” And how can you be better than the Jews if you don’t keep the laws and the commands?? 😛 xoxo
Hi Facundo, I am trying to understand what the comment is. Do you mean to say that reading the Bible is dangerous? Correct me if I am misinterpreting your comment. But assuming this was the point of your commend, you are right to say that there are definitely stories in the Bible which talk about immorality and violence. However we need to understand what is a descriptive passage and what is a prescriptive passage. The difference is one is accounting for events and the other is commanding us what to do. I think the passages you are referring to are descriptive. When our children come across these we discuss the content with them and explain that there is an ideal that we ought to aspire for, how God commands us to live (for our good), and then there are the realities of human will and the consequences of the choices we make. On the story of Solomon, for example, the Bible tells us that his wives turned his heart away from the Lord. In Ecclesiastes, Solomon himself admits to the futility of his pursuit of pleasure (such as women). Therefore, we can still learn from his story. Personally, the greatest story of the Bible is that God loves us so much and he has redeemed us through his Son, Jesus. In the accounts of the Bible, we see imperfect people accepting the grace of God or denying it. That is how we explain the Bible to our kids 🙂
Hi Joy! THough i want to make you understand it asap but the statement you have made forces me to make a confession of faith… And that is we muslims happen to be the only non-christian faith which makes it an article of faith for its followers to believe in Jesus. No muslim is a muslim if he does not believe in Jesus. We believe Jesus Christ is one of the Mighties messenger of God. We beliv that he was the Messiah. We beliv in his miraculous birth (which many modern day christians rejected today). We beliv he gave life to the dead by God’s permission, and he heal those blind and lepers by God’s permission. We are going together… The only parting of the ways is we say he’s not God Almighty in human form, not God Incarrrnate, and he’s not begotten son of God. Metaphorically we are all the children of God – the good and the bad, and Jesus is closer to be the son of God than anyone of us becoz’ he will be more faithful to God than anyone of us can ever be.. from that point of view we would agree that he is most pre-immenently the son of God. But not as the christians say that he is the only begotten son, begotten not made – not in that sense! 🙂 “And remember when the angels said, “O Mary, Allah sends you the good news of a Command of His: his name shall be Messiah, Jesus son of Mary. He will be highly honoured in this world and in the Next World and he will be among those favoured by Allah. He will speak to the people alike when in the cradle and when grown up, and he will be among the righteous.” Hearing this, Mary said, “How, O Lord, shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me?” “Thus shall it be,”44 was the answer. Allah creates whatever He wills. When He decrees a thing, He only says, “Be” and it is. (Continuing their message, the angels added,) “And Allah will teach him the Book and wisdom, and give him the knowledge of the Torah and the Gospel, and appoint him as His Messenger to the children of Israel.” Holy Quran Chap3 verse 45:49. Both mother and son — they both ate food. And anyone who eats food can never be the God. Becoz’ if you eat food you have the call of nature – you need the TOILETS! And if there is no toilets you look for the rocks or the bushes! 😛 Coming to your question. I said George Bernard Shaw says that. I didn’t say that Bible most dangerous book on earth keep it under lock and key.. George Bernard Shaws says so, not me 🙂 This is new words coming up descriptive and prescriptive?? I’m still not taking exception for this. Beco’z in 1 Chronicles 14:33 says “For God is not the author of confusion”.. Accepted. How can god confuse people? It’s the work of the Devil! The devil confuses people not God. Accepted. But in book of Ezekiel 1:25 we read “Therefore I also gave them up to statutes law which are not good? which are not good laws?? and judgment which they could not live.!! That’s DEVILISH thing to do, God does that? He said I am not the author of confusion, but he’s confusion His creations! giving them evil laws and evil statutes.. and the same god is inspiring this 2 authors. People write romance, novels, science fiction it would have been a fantastic book, the Bible! But if you attributes the most of the things mentioned in the Bible it become shameful and blasphemous.. that’s what I’m saying. So the bible if not the word of God. Cheers! 🙂
I pray that God would save you.
Repent and believe.
Jesus Christ is God.
Pls take your time in studying the book of John. Try to understand the book base in the original recipient. Or how would the Jews understand the writings of John.
You are a sinner.
The only hope you have is Christ. His finish work on the cross.
Repent and believe and you will be save.
I’ll give you fresh example of what I’m talking about in my previous post John 3:13 And no man hath Ascended into heaven, but he that came down from heaven, except the Son of man which is in heaven. The Son of man – Jesus which is in heaven? Luke tells us 2:21 And when 8 days were accomplished for circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel be4 he was conceived in the womb. He said he descended from heaven, but the nurses and whoever helping Mary in the stable they saw this JESUS, this puny little child with all the filth and the mud which made his mother impure for 40 days according to jewish law, coming out of his mother’s womb. Now they said he descended from heaven (who is in heaven). And who is in heaven?? But he man on earth is having a rough time with the Jews, he’s in hell, the jews are giving hells to him!! And he is in heaven?? So in the 6th major revision (RSV) the word “which is in heaven” is taken out becoz they know it’s not fitting. The man is here on earth and they said who is in heaven. What heaven?? It’s hell that you’re in!! Is Hell you’re Heaven?? Haha 🙂
The book gives you DEVILISH ADVICE – the Bible, if it’s the word of God. It says Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts, Proverbs 31:6 Holy Bible. Any person who is about to die, any nation who is about to perish what you do.. give ‘em strong drink give ‘em hard liquor!!!?? Open your book and see. That when are people are dying like the Aborigines of Australia the white man has been giving him drink, the Red Indians you go to America and Canada, see what was the fate of this people, DRINK, DRINK, DRINK!! Alcohol, alcohol, alcohol!! You want a nation to perish, you want to destroy people give ‘em strong drink says the Holy Bible. Let him drink and forget his poverty and remember his misery no more, Proverbs 31:7. That’s the advice. God give you that advice??? I remember when I was a boy a cowboy movie the man is dying and they give him drink. In muslim when a man is dying they give him honey and water, easy digested and give you quick energy.. the man is in throws of death you give him hard drink hard liquor, now that’s what the Bible says. So a man is dying give him hard drink, nation is perishing give them hard drink hard liquor! 😛 🙂
This is the prince of the prophets Isaiah – this is what God do to him. At the same time spake the Lord by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying “Go and loose the sack cloth form all thy loins, (you know that sack cloth you’re tying, untie that) and put off thy shoes from thy foot, and he did so walking naked and barefoot. Isaiah 20:2 Holy Bible. A prophet of God for 3 years he’s walking up and down the streets of Jerusalem or wherever he was ABSOLUTELY NAKED, not even a G-TRING!!?? 😛 😛 Can you imagine God give such instructions to his prophets, his emissary?? Go and 3 years in front of his mother, daughters, sisters, everybody, his walking naked one of the mightiest prophet in the Bible walking naked for 3 years!! The Lord said like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot 3 years, Isaiah 20:3 so you’re Lord gonna make you do the same. Haha Allah Ta’Allah tells us in the Qu’ran 7:28 Allah does not command any shameful deeds, you say about Allah the God Almighty about things you don’t know? In ignorance, God telling his prophets to go walked about naked?? And in this language the God in the Bible talking, BEHOLD, I WILL CORRUPT YOUR SEED, AND SPREAD DUNG UPON YOUR FACES, book of Malachi 2:3 Holy Bible. You know what’s dung?? It is Excretaa, (TAE in tagalog), God Almighty gonna spread DUNG on your faces, Hahahah even the dung of your solemn feast and one shall take you away with it (humiliate you). And telling another prophets of his, and thou shall eat it, Ezekiel 4:12 And thou shall eat it as barley cakes, and thou shall baked it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight (manure). Fresh dung you shall eat it, this is God in the bible telling his prophets to eat barley cakes and fresh dung too!! And it must be fresh not that dried up dung you can burn like a goat dung, it be fresh!! Hahahaha 🙂
God almighty in the Bible he is not Shailot (William Shakespear made him and the jews famous) he wanted that Christian pound of flesh, he entered into a contract, an agreement with this Christian he lent him some money he said look by certain day you don’t pay I’ll take 1 pound. When the contract was broken he’s demanding 1 pound of flesh that’s all, he said I want 1 pound flesh according to contract. But God Almighty he’s not satisfied with one for one hmm hmm no no. Holy bible Exodus 20:5 He says for I am the Lord your God Am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation of them that hate me; You make a sin I’m going to visit and punish them to the 3rd and 4th generation out of those who hate me. He’s going to punish you seven times over for whatever you do, and after all Holy Bible Leviticus 26:18-28 and if ye will not obey me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. If you don’t do your homework my son, so you’re supposed to get 1 cut 1 lash!, But no no no, this headmasters of yours will give you seven cuts, everybody is supposed to get 1 cut for not doing homework, you will get seven cuts!! And if ye will not reformed by me by these things, but walked contrary to me, Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and willpunish you yet seven times for your sins. Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury, and I, even I will chastise you seven times for your sins. Allah tells us in the Holy Quran chapter 4 verse 40, Allah will not do the least bit of injustice to you. Allah says Holy Quran 28:84 If you do a good deed He will reward you better than your deed. If you do 1 good deed He will reward you better, He can reward you a Million fold for every good deeds of yours. And the doers of evil will be punished to the extent of their evil deeds. God of the Bible says seven times over and I’m gonna visit the sins of the fathers to the 3rd and 4th generation taking revenge.
Unfortunately your handling of scripture is distorted.
There is a course called hermeneutics. I highly suggest that you take that course if your really interested in knowing what the bible says.
1 rule is this – Ps and Proverbs are not commandments.
On your John 3:13 – 3:13. This verse, connected to the preceding verse by kai (‘and’), provides the explanation for the fact that Jesus is able to speak authoritatively of ‘heavenly things’. It is often misunderstood, primarily because it can be translated more than one way. The NIV is misleading: No-one has ever gone into heaven except (ei mē) the one who came from heaven—which sounds as if Jesus, the ‘one who came from heaven’, had previously ascended into heaven as an exception to the rule. This is then taken by many scholars to be a further indication that parts of this chapter are anachronistic. The Evangelist, it is claimed, is writing from the perspective of the church at the end of the first century, looking back on the ascension of Christ decades earlier (e.g. Bauer, p. 56; Brown, 1. 145; esp. Nicholson, pp. 91–98, and Borgen, Logos, pp. 133–148). But is it very likely that the Evangelist would create so clumsy an anachronism when he is frequently so careful to distinguish between events during Jesus’ ministry and understanding that took place only after the resurrection/exaltation? Even in the immediate context, he goes on to treat the resurrection of Jesus as future to the stance at which he has placed Jesus. Moreover this appeal to anachronism does not explain why the Evangelist has so tightly tied this verse to the preceding one.
Resolution is found in the fact that ei mē, often translated ‘except’, can introduce an exception to the general idea that has been introduced, without providing an exception to what is explicitly stated in the immediately preceding clause. English usage in such cases often demands ‘but’, ‘but rather’ or ‘but only’ rather than ‘except’. Compare Revelation 21:27: ‘Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only (ei mē) those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.’ Clearly those written in the Lamb’s book of life are not thought to be impure, shameful or deceitful; the translation would be highly misleading in this context if ei mē were rendered by ‘except’ (cf. also Mt. 12:4; Lk. 4:27; Acts 27:22; probably Gal. 1:19). True, in all these instances the member in the ei mē clause proves to be the only one that does the action described in the first clause: in the example from Revelation 21:27, only those whose names are written in the book of life actually enter the holy city. Applied to John 3:13, that might be taken to mean that the only one who has ascended is the one who has descended. But the flow of the argument and the peculiar perfect anabebēken (‘has ascended’) conspire to focus the ‘exception’ rather differently. Jesus can speak of heavenly things (v. 12), and (kai) no-one [else] has ascended into heaven and remained there [so as to be able to speak authoritatively about heavenly things] but only the one who has come down from heaven [is equipped to do so] (cf. Lagrange, pp. 80–81; Westcott, 1. 53; Moloney, pp. 53–59).11
The Judaism of Jesus’ day circulated many stories of bygone saints who had ascended into heaven and received special insight into God’s ways and plans. Many of these stories focused on Moses (cf. Meeks, pp. 110–111, 192–195, 235–236; Odeberg, pp. 72–94). Jesus insists that no-one has ascended to heaven in such a way as to return to talk about heavenly things. Only in heaven can true wisdom be found (cf. Pr. 30:4). But Jesus can speak of heavenly things, not because he ascended to heaven from a home on earth and then descended to tell others of his experiences, but because heaven was his home in the first place, and therefore he has ‘inherently the fulness of heavenly knowledge’ (Westcott, 1. 53). He is the one who came from heaven; he is the revelatory Son of Man (cf. notes on 1:51).
I hope this helps.
I do not want to argue with you. I getting old for that. But if you have any question in scripture that you need to be clarified on, please comment and Ill try by best to explain.
In my church, we are not allowed to marry an annulled. Divorced or separated man. If a christian man’s wife has a new hubby, tthen it is his consequence, Di na maka asawa ulit otherwise magkakasala ky God. I dunno san ako susunod kasi feeling ko, wala na ba tlga palang karapatan magingmasaya ulit ang guy eh di na tlga pwedi magkabalikan pa sila ng wife nya…
My sis met her ex bf again who is now a married man. He doesnt love his wife. They still love each other (my sis and the guy). Guy plans to leave his wife. Wife is even willing to file annulment if the guy really is happy to go back to my sis again.. I dont agree. This is adultery.
Pls advise. Sis story is almost the same with monique and john’s. Thank u.
By the way, amen to all that u have said Dani.
Gid bless to you
@Facundo: Perhaps the goal is not to be “better” than the Jews. It’s to live for the glory of my Creator, as one who is a work in progress. I feel like you’re just having too much fun with your comments, and so I shall excuse myself out of this conversation. Debates don’t really serve anyone any good purpose. Still, I pray you have a good week!
@Joy: Sorry for that long exchange. As always, I’m blessed to read your blog. This story in particular hits deep!
I also pray for you my sister day and night 😛
Thank you Facundo, I’m sorry I wasn’t able to respond to your previous posts. I tried to several times but it wouldn’t send it would get deleted. So bizzare. Anyway, I hope you won’t take people’s comments back to you as an attack on your person. I think the reality is when convictions and beliefs are challenged, alot of emotions can come out in the statements we make. And I think everyone who has commented has been well-meaning, too.
At the same time, since you are a reader of my blog, I know you will understand why I can’t agree with your perspective on Jesus or the Bible. 🙂 And I could write a lengthy response here but perhaps you can email me and my husband, Edric, instead, after I make just a few comments in response… (edricmendoza@gmail.com, joytanchimendoza@gmail.com)
First, if Jesus is not the Son of God and if his claims were erroneous then you are so right to pity and mock us for living our lives based on his claims and following him. And since you focused on passages that showed us his humanity, his deity certainly comes into question. So might I make a proposal…If Jesus was just a man and died as a man, then we might call him a good man. But he said he was God, and so he cannot be called a good man. Neither should we love him if he lied to us about being God. But since he did say that he would die and rise again, then it makes sense for us to investigate (thoroughly) the one thing that would confirm whether his claims were true. We know that historically, such a a person as Jesus Christ existed. So was he a liar? A lunatic? or Lord? The answer is dependent upon the answer to the question: is their proof for the resurrection? Since you seem like the type of person who likes to research, maybe you would like to look into a couple of resources:
1. Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell
2. The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel
3. jesusfactorfiction.com
As for the statements you made about the Bible, you misquoted the passage in Ezekiel and Chronicles but I get your point about God not being a God of confusion but of order. But the context was that people should not speak in tongues without an interpreter to edify the people of God, nor should prophets all speak the same time so that people cannot hear what they are saying.
If people really want to criticize the Bible and say it’s not the word of God but a poorly written piece of literature (as you say it is), then might they consider the following:
Archeological evidence: https://answersingenesis.org/archaeology/does-archaeology-support-the-bible/
Prophecies: “The Bible contains over 2000 prophesies that have been fulfilled, many with very specific details. One must ask himself why he would remain skeptical in light of this incontrovertible evidence. It would seem that if someone was honestly seeking the truth, it would certainly be a worthwhile effort to to at least investigate a handful of these prophesies. Psalm 22 would be a good start – it contains several prophesies describing Christ’s crucifixion, a method of execution that wasn’t invented until several centuries after King David wrote about it. A Bible and an encyclopedia is all one would need to verify the prophetic accuracy of Psalm 22.” (source: bibleevidences.com)
At the end of the day, it’s possible that we may have to agree to disagree on these two things (Jesus as the Son of God, and the Bible as the Word of God). But like I said, if you want to continue discussing please email me and my husband. Thanks, Facundo!!!
Hi Joy!
The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger: many Messengers had already passed away before him. His mother was a righteous woman and they both ate food. Behold! how We make clear to them the signs leading to the Reality, and, again behold, how they are drifted. Holy Quran Chapter 5 Verse 75. Again Jesus is the Messiah and one closest to God, we say as the Christian might say sitting on the right hand of God, but not physically, not geographically, because God is not like a man sitting on a glorified chair on the throne and Jesus Christ on his right side like a plea or a lice, no no.. in position of importance this is my man, my right hand man, as such we say he’s in the company nearest & closest one to God.
With regards to your saying Jesus said he’s God, I would like you to do me a favor, if Jesus is God, I would like you to show me 1 verse, only 1 statement anywhere in your Bible any version of the Bible where Jesus says I’m God or where he says Worship Me and by God even at this moment, if you tell me read John 1:1 so what does it say? Does it say in the words of Jesus I’m God worship Me? So John is saying “In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was god.” Ask Christian scholars where did John get these words from? That time before John, a Greek philosopher by the name of Philo in his philosophy he wrote this formula “in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God” which John copied into his Gospel. You see the word God the first time that God occurred in that verse “In the beginning was the word and the word was with God” I’m asking what is the Greek word there for God? You’re follower of Greek scriptures, you ough to know Greek the basis of your religion your manuscripts are in Greek Mathew, Mark, Luke and the 27 books of the New Testament were only available in Greek. In Greek language the word for God is “theos” and the word there is “ho theos” means “The God” now according to the system of western nations when they have a proper Noun they start with the capital letter, common Noun small “g” proper Noun capital “G” for God. So there in the translation you have “God” with capital G. FYI, in Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic there is no such thing as capital letters or small letters. But in western system there is capital letters and there is small letters. So the word “The God” (stands for God Almighty) so we have the capital letter “God” and the word was god. That second word god in Greek is “ton theos” meaning “A god” and “A god” should have small g that is “A god” meaning any god. So I’m asking why in the translation they put capital “G” again as “A God???” C’mmon explain you’re cheating somebody. First time capital G as The God is valid acceptable, second time it should be small g why have you put another capital G?? Creating a different meaning that this is the God Almighty “A god” means godly. You see in the book of Corinthians you read there “and the devil is the god of this world,” he the devil is The God (ho theos in Greek), but you gave him small g I want to know why? If it is ho theos “The God” the Christian scholars ough to give capital G God to the devil, but no no. You see you play fast and loose with these manuscripts. You translate them as you like. Then in the Old Testament God Almighty speaks to Moses, He tells him that “behold I have made you a god to Pharaoh.” So why you given small g? The devil ough to have capital G you gave small g and Moses ough to have capital G but you gave small g where did you get these? It’s not in Hebrew, not in Greek. This is what you want to believe and what you want the people to believe, so it’s not honest translation. So what does Jesus say? Jesus says “my father is greater than I, my father is greater than all, I can of myself do nothing!” You know what is nothing? Nothing is nothing. What you have been quoting was Philippians, Corinthians, Thassalunians, and who else? Whose that Jesus? No it’s Paul, Paul, Paul! I want to know what my master Jesus said, his words, not what somebody else what he thinks, or what it ough to have meant, or what it was implied.. hmm hmm my religion, my salvation, does not depend on peoples interpretations, yours are mine or anybody. Master Jesus said “the word he hears are not mine, but the father that sent me He had given me a commandment what I should say and what I should speak even as the father says unto me so I speak.” So what he spoke was the TRUTH, maybe you understand things differently. So where did Jesus said I’m God worship Me??? And you will never find it!
Leave out being God for a while let’s see Jesus humility. Mathew 19:16-17 “and behold one came and said unto him (unto Jesus) goooood Master, good Master, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life? And he (Jesus) saith unto him why call us thou me good? What you’re calling me good for? There is none good but one, that is God. Only God is Good, He’s all Good. He refuses that you should even call him good, how can he (Jesus) ask you to call me God??? Answer that. This quality of goodness I might say good pastor and in humility the pastor said no I’m not such a good man. You say Joel (my real name) you’re a very good man, I say no no no please leave that out I have lot of short comings. We in humility we do that, but if Jesus was God, this is hypocrisy! God is Good! And if he’s God he say’s well I accept what you are telling me but as a man he has the right to say NO what you’re calling me good for you know the real goodness is in God Almighty and He is all Good. So we can see in his own words his disclaiming any type of divinity, that he is God, he’s disclaiming that.
And now meow with regards to the prophecies hopefully everybody is waiting for Jesus anytime anytime now! The Jehovah’s witness has masterful techniques they have you know they don’t build churches, they don’t build schools, no hospitals, no orphanages, no farm, nothing. They just do their job they hire halls and call it Kingdom Halls. Masterful technique any minute Jesus is coming and you work people into frenzy! But this frenzy has been going on for 2000 years based on Mark 13:26-30 then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send His angels and gather together His “elect” from the four winds from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Assuredly I say to you this generation will by no means pass away ‘till all these things take place. So the people understood what it exactly says and they were waiting every time they saw a cloud that anytime Jesus is coming!! And people been selling this for over 2000 years they work out some figures 1914 Jesus is coming, 1918 Jesus is coming, and people sell their properties everything and they find huh.. false hopes, dumb squid he hasn’t come 2000 years have gone. Mathew 10:23 And when they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly I say unto you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. And they fled and early Christians were persecuted and they fled and they perish 2000 years have gone false hopes and they died and the bones are rotted in the grave but he has not come yet. But the emotionalism was there, you can be worked up into a frenzy to sell your properties, divorce your wife and children, and go out into the wilderness it can be done. This is how that suicide cult Rev. Jim Jones in America, he did it, he made his followers 911 of them 100% to commit suicide by drinking lemonade laced with Cynide he made them all to drink. Can you imagine? This is how emotionalism can worked up people, it can make you to do things just because any minute any time Jesus is coming. But 2000 years passed and the promised returned has not occurred yet.
You see it becomes absurd when you think that Jesus is God. As a man we love him, respect him, revered him. But when you say he’s God he must have the qualities of God, what is God? The Creator of the heavens and the earth. Did Jesus said I created the heavens and the earth? No, Paul says so and so and so says so. Jesus doesn’t say that. Now if Jesus is God what what was his occupation? This God when he walks with us 33 years what was his job? Mark 6:3 Jesus was a carpenter by trade.. and the son of a carpenter. Mathew 13:55. This doesn’t befit God 😛
Thanks Joy 🙂
hi Facundo: im sorry but i can’t help it not to comment- if your a muslim why are you even in this page- we respect muslim i hope you should do the same.
Hi joy I love your blog, I’m learning a lot from you. I Pray that God will always give you the drive and passion to continue, no matter what.
Facundo:To be lost is a tragedy, but not knowing that you are lost is a greater tragedy. God bless! No other name, JESUS!
I Love Jesus : Pls let me share about being lost and the one who doesn’t know. Before I continue, one is looking for toilets, the rocks or the bushes if one needs to EXCRETE! And God doesn’t do that! The Bible you’re carrying which you and thousand million christians says that it’s the veritable word of God inspired by the spirit, which is God. Becoz christians believe that Father is God, Son is God, and Holy Ghost is God, which is the spirit. But this “God” (in inverted commas) is IGNORANT OF THE TIME. If he (Jesus) was “god” as the spirit is co-equal and co-eternal and they ough to know one another, so this holy spirit inspired Mark 30:32 to write; “But of that day and that hour, no but noo anyman, no not the angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON (referring to himself – Jesus), but the FATHER, the only one who knows WHEN THE LAST DAY comes, i.e. Judgement day, Resurrection, call it what you like.. the last day and that day.. nobody knows, even the angels (nor do I know :)) this is the knowledge of God, my Father – only He knows.” How can he (Jesus) not know?? Knowledge, what kind of “god” is this that he has no knowledge of the last day and the holy spirit is testifying saying – this “god” (Jesus) he doesn’t know. How can he be God? Knowledge is part of God – He’s all knowing, He knows everything, He knows our secret thoughts, our feeligns our emotions – He’s aware of everything – our motives – everything! But this “god” as Mark inspired by the holy spirit he doesn’t know anything abou the last day. This Jesus (if he was “god”) was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. But he was tempted, he has the same weaknesses that we have. Then James 1:13 says the true god (God Almighty) he cannot be tempted with evil. Same spirit is inspiring James to write that “god” cannot be tempted by evil, neither tempted by any man. Not only he is not tempted but he also doesn’t tempt any man. Then we read that the Devil tempted “god” (Jesus) for 40 days and immediately the spirit drive him into the wilderness and stayed there in the wilderness for 40 days – Jesus, tempted by Satan – Satan tempted him for 40 days – he plays the fool of him for 40 days . What was he’s doing for 40 days in the wilderness?? This is not the quality or attributes of God that the devil can tempt God.And this “god” (Jesus) he learns thru experience like you and me. He touch fire he gets burn he learn that fire burns. They say he’s a wise man who learns for this experience, but the wiser man is he who learns from the experience of others, you know when others makes a fool of themselves a lesson that we’ll not make the same mistake. And Jesus, he didn’t have this opportunity. Thanks and I wish peace and guidance from Almighty God to all. 🙂
Same comment I gave you above.
You need to study how to study the bible. If your really in search of the truth, this will be worth while.
I happen to be a teacher of this subject.
Passage must be studied base on a Historical, Cultural, Contextual, Lexical, Theological Analysis. We must also keep in mind the Special rules that applies.
Your reading and explanation of Scripture shows that you are not equip in handling the world of God properly.
I pray that God will seek and save your soul.
Soli Deo Gloria
To you Mr. Bobby and to Mr. Anonymous, who very fairly stated doesn’t want to argue with me and I know their is no point in arguing when you’re opponent wants sleep 🙂 But let me share with you what my friend said about the Holy Bible you’re holding (whatever version) Mrs. Ellen G. White, a “prophetess” of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, in her Bible commentary Vol.1, page 14, has this DAMNING CONFESSION to make about the fallibility of the “Holy Bible.” THE BIBLE WE READ TODAY IS THE WORK OF MANY COPYIST WHO HAVE IN MOST INSTANCES DONE THEIR WORK WITH MARVELLOUS ACCURACY. BUT COPYIST HAVE NOT BEEN INFALLIBLE, AND GOD MOST EVIDENTLY HAS NOT SEEN FIT TO PRESERVE THEM ALTOGETHER FROM ERROR IN TRANSCRIBING.
GOD DIDN’T SEE FIT?? In other words, this is His business, God’s business – if He wanted to see fit, if He wanted to do a thing, if He doesn’t go to Hell, that’s your business.
In the following pages of her commentary, Mrs. White testifies further, “I SAW THAT GOD HAD ESPECIALLY GUARDED THE BIBLE (from what?). YET WHEN COPIES OF IT WERE FEW, LEARNED MEN HAD IN SOME INSTANCES CHANGED THE WORDS, THINKING THAT THEY WERE MAKING IT PLAIN WHEN IN REALITY THEY WERE MYSTIFYING THAT WHICH WAS PLAIN BY CAUSING IT TO LEAN ON THEIR ESTABLISHED VIEWS WHICH WERE GOVERNED BY TRADITIONS.” Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses they have produced the translation called the New World Translation, the Orthodox they don’t accept that.. Why don’t you?? Because they have their own lineage ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN IDEAS THEY’RE CHANGING THE WORDS. Same thing with the Protestants they were people who believe Jesus as God, now they changed the words and this has been going on from the very beginning.
Regarding questions, I’ve lots of questions in my previous comments which has not been answered if you care to look please feel free to share ideas. Thank you. Have a nice day 🙂
First things first.
If you don’t believe that the bible is the word of God, then there is no point in explaining a verse.
As to the validity of the bible, we can discuss that if you like.
There is a book called evidence that demands a verdict by josh macdowell. I think it’s worth the look. I also suggest you look into the book the case of Christ.
Hi Joy!
I am always enlightened everytime I read your blog entries. And your family depicts the family I want to have in the future.
But may I ask why didn’t you encourage John to get back with his original wife? Why didn’t you encourage John’s wife to join your Bible Study group too and get to know God?
Hi Mae, we did encourage John to do this (try to reconcile with his original wife if possible). We didn’t know John’s wife at all back then, so we didn’t ask her to join our Bible study group. However, your question is a good one. It would have been wonderful if she had joined a bible study group (even if it wasn’t ours). Looking back, I wish we had thought of that.
God’s word does not change. No compromises. Being purified or being holy requires staying away from sin. Godly repentance is leaving your old life and surrendering everything to Jesus. By staying together and even building a family from an adulterous relationship, I don’t think that they are aligned with God’s Will. Instead of surrendering to God, this couple surrendered to sin. You should have taught them to wait for God and to trust Him to fix their “scrambled eggs.” After all, nothing is impossible with God.
It is highly important for influential people such as your family to examine what you intend to show the public before doing so. Their relationship is adulterous and you are fully aware of that. Their testimony did not even have enough biblical foundation.
This is my question, no answer yet from joy. I also wanna know.
Hi Anonymous, Thank you for your opinion. I agree with you that it is important what we show the public and if I caused you to stumble by posting this article, please forgive me. I didn’t in any way mean for it to come across as approving of divorce and remarriage. I wanted it instead to highlight how God can redeem situations by His grace. Yes, John and Monique’s Ong’s relationship began as adulterous when they were living in with one another. These are all valid points and I think you are right to be very convicted about sin, repentance, and marriage. Please keep these convictions and don’t compromise. But on the point of, “Their relationship is adulterous (up to now) and you are fully aware of that,” I have no defense based on the standard that God says that divorced people shouldn’t remarry (unless their spouse passes away). I didn’t get to include it in the post but we did let Monique and John know this. We still believe this to be the ideal. But at the end of the day, we didn’t force them NOT TO get married either. If this is the part where you feel we erred in our mentoring of them, then of course you are entitled to your opinion based on your convictions. I respect that. The reality is there are many complicated situations that leaders have to deal with that will receive criticism. This is one of those situations. I do hope you understand that I’m not advocating divorce and re-marriage. But if a couple makes the decision to marry and one of them was previously divorced, and they choose to honor it, I will love them and receive them and not make them feel like they are living in sin for the rest of their lives, especially if they have repented and chosen to follow the Lord. Thank you for holding me accountable. I appreciate this.
Hi Joy,
I have a concern regarding this topic. I am a constant follower of your blog, I read everytime you post and I highly admire you for your insights. Your blog posts and marriage talks with Edric that I have attended inspires me. I am enlightened by your sharing and so I always share this to my family and friends as well.
Regarding this particular post, I wanted to be enlightened first because I feel that it does not coincide with some of the bible verses such as:
Mark 10:9
1 Corinthians 7:10-11
Mathew 19:9
Romans 7:2
Luke 16:18
Isn’t it he should have reconciled with his original wife or if not remain unmarried to another woman? Because his first marriage was valid and the choice to get married was made by his own free will, that makes it a lifetime commitment? I have read John’s testimony about his first and second marriage as well.
I would like to put an emphasis on Mark 10:9 is his first marriage already invalid, not just on the annulment paper but on the spiritual context.
I hope to hear from you soon so I will be enlightened about this topic, because I feel that it does not coincide with the bible and I am confuse about that particular situation.
Hi Catalina, Nice name! Like my daughter’s! 🙂
1. I do believe that a person should try their best to reconcile with their spouse. Marriage is a display of God’s covenant keeping love, between Christ and his church, on earth. Christ will never forsake his bride. On earth, therefore, we must remain committed to the person we marry. In heaven, however, there is no need to display this covenant keeping love. (Matthew 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.)
2. In 1 Corinthians 7:12 – 16 it does say that “if the UNBELIEVING person wants to separate, let it be so…God has called us to peace.” So if the unbelieving spouse insists on leaving the marriage, then we can let them go (although God doesn’t want it to come to this.) Now, does this mean that the person who is left by their unbelieving spouse should now look for a wife or husband? I don’t think so either. Matthew 19:9 says, “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” So, it is BETTER for a divorcee not to get remarried. It is BEST to keep the marriage covenant in the first place. (Mark 10:9 What God has joined together, let no man separate.)
3. A person is only released from the marital covenant if his or her spouse dies. (Romans 7:2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him.) Otherwise, the Bible calls it adultery to remarry. (Luke 16:18 Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.)
4. God calls us to a high standard when it comes to marriage. He doesn’t want us to get divorced from our spouses. Ideally, it doesn’t seem like he wants us to remarry either if we are a divorcee whose spouse is still living. Why? For so long as there is the possibility of reconciliation, then it makes sense to pray for this, try our best to pursue this, or wait for it. Of course, it’s difficult to explain this standard to people who don’t know the Lord or his word because, very often, these are people who are in marriages that are insufferable. These are people who continue to have longings for love when they leave these insufferable marriages. And in the first place, how can they extend the grace and forgiveness to continue on without having received it from Christ?
Having said this, many people come into a relationship with Jesus after the fact — as divorcees, as scrambled eggs. The choices they made before understanding what it really means to follow Jesus were often times made in total ignorance of his standards. But the encouragement of 2 Corinthians 5:17 tells us, Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
On the one hand, as new creations, this could mean that they should still try to go back to their spouse. But, let’s take John and Monique’s situation — John was a divorcee who had children with another woman, and his first wife was going to marry someone else, and now, in Christ, as a new creation, he chooses to marry Monique with whom he will now honor the convenant-keeping love that God designed for marriage. What shall our judgement be? Shall we label them as adulterers until the point where the first wife passes away? Shall we tell them to stay unmarried and live apart and stay pure indefinitely? (This was our default response.) Or shall we say, “If you choose to marry Monique then be a husband who will never leave her, and raise your children to know God as you display your convenant-keeping love to one another?”
Edric and I told them our default response which I indicated above, but we also let them decide as two new creations in Christ. The issue of divorce and remarriage has been a long-standing debate amongst followers of Jesus. It has even separated churches (which shouldn’t be the case.) There are things worth dying for and there are things worth debating. Divorce and remarriage falls under “worth debating.” The gospel, that falls under worth dying for.
In conclusion, should followers of Jesus pursue God’s standard for marriage, namely honoring their covenant to one another no matter what, and if they are divorced, remain single until their spouse passes away? Yes. But what if people decide to remarry again like cases like John and Monique’s, then will we love them still and help them to honor their commitment to their second spouse? The answer is also, yes. Can God still use their life stories for his glory and to bless others? Yes.
There is no easy answer to your concerns. But the safest thing would be to say, keep the convictions you have because they conform to God’s standard for marriage. These are good convictions to have when you come into a marriage or seek to counsel others. I have the same convictions. At the same time, I will also not judge those who choose to get re-married but I will encourage them to live out their marriage with the same standard that God calls all marriages to.
Hi Joy,
I hope you can have a dialogue on this matter.
For me to better appreciate your position I would like to asked a couple of question.
1) at what point did there sin became acceptable. I believe no amount of time can erase a sin.
2) I think the scrambled egg theology is a scrambled egg. That massage can’t be use in this case. Are we saying that if a person is in sin at the point of conversion that they should remain in that condition. I’m sure you would disagree with that. But that is what you are implying by that a scrambled egg theology. If you will note, the example given in the passage is about slave and free men. It has nothing to do in a position of sin.
We sometimes think that time and the consequence of our sin will make a wrong thing right. That if we give time and there are a lot of consequence (kids due to adultery) then it would be ok. In the eyes of God, who is John married to? If you say to Monique, then at what point did God gave up and said that there sin can now be fixed by re marriage.
My opinion also is that you loving them is not CHRIST honoring. Yes you might say that you will show them love, but that should not be at the expense of dishonouring Christ. The best is for them is to be loved in a disciplinary manner that is consistent to 2 corn 5.
I would greatly encourage you in studying the theology of church discipline, and the key point that I think you need to ponder is why is it done?
I’m just rushing this response as it is 8 am already and I need to rush to the office. If you do decide to reply I would try to give you a more comprehensive reply to your other points.
Solo Deo gloria.
I agree with Catalina and anonymous. The man should have abandoned his relationship with his mistress (even if she’s a Christian already) and pursued his first wife after hearing and accepting the truth. It’s like this couple with the help of others have legalized what was illegal in the first place. I thought that grace should not be used to suit one’s dreams and wants. If it’s not aligned with the word of God, no matter how one fixes and makes it seem legal is still bent and crooked.
But then who am I to judge? Who are we to judge?
the truth is out there. We should meditate on it day and night.
Hi Follower of Jesus, I didn’t see your post or question till now but perhaps you can refer to my responses to Catalina Right and Anonymous? Please let me know if I have addressed your concerns. Thanks!
Thanks for your response Joy. If they were new creations and fully understood the gospel, perhaps they would have been fully satisfied in Christ that their longing for each other’s love would not be such a big deal anymore. It’s the motives behind our actions that determine if we use GRACE to our advantage and the Lord surely knows it. This is what comes to my mind when the 2 got married: Romans 6:1:2 1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
And I just hope that the two know the story of Hosea!
Peace to all!
I agree with all your detailed explanation of the bible verses about marriage
Except for your explanation in 2 Corinthians 5:12. 2 Corinthians 5:12 tell us, “Therefore in anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed; behold new things have come.” I think this verse explains that when a man repents from his sins and decide to accept Jesus in his life and live accordingly to the word of God which is the bible then he will be forgiven by God; that makes him a renewed man and a new creature. But still this means that he is still the son of his parents, the father of his children and the husband to his first wife. Being renewed means being forgiven and surrendering everything for God and living for him from this day and on. which means John should have ended his adulterous relationship not by getting married but by separating even if they have children. Correcting his past mistakes by facing the consequences of his choices through (reconciliation with his first wife or remain celibate) by following the word of God, nothing is impossible.
2 Corinthians 5:15 says “and he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.” I think this explains that through Christ we will be complete and satisfied and the center of our life is him. Thus, aligning our decisions to what is pleasing in God’s eyes is really vital.
And Romans 6:1 which has been explained already by anonymous also touches my mind.
I agree with Anonymous may I quote “their longing for each other’s love would not be such a big deal anymore.” Because he has Jesus Christ in his life.
The verses about marriage is very clear 1 Corinthians 7:12-16, Mathew 19:9, Mark 10:9, Romans 7;2 and Luke 16:18. And I agree with follower of Jesus Christ which may I quote “grace should not be aligned to suit one’s dreams and wants.” I agree that no matter how they try to correct things if its not aligned with the word of God then it is still a mistake.
In this situation I remember the verse about the adulterous woman John 8:11 it says, “No Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.” She was renewed and forgiven, and was asked to leave the life of sin.
Mark 10:9 says “What God has joined together let no man shall separate.”
I respect John and Monique, and I admire how much they have changed their outlook in life from their testimonies I’ve read but for this particular situation I think it is not aligned with God’s word.
But who am I to judge, it’s between them and God at the end of the day. i shall pray for enlightenment.
i appreciate that you acknowledge different opinions about this, I’ve read your replies. Continue inspiring.
I believe the most honorable recourse was for John ( being a Christian) to get back with his original wife who has not remarried. Regardless if she did not want him back. Nothing is impossible with God. Is anything too hard for HIM? Prayer moves mountains can it not? Then it would even be an amazing testimony if he did win her back and led her to Christ. After all that is what unconditinal love, sacrificial love is all about. It is not about us but about our spouses, to help the fullfill Gods purpose in their lives, that one day we can stand before the Lord and present our wives unto Him, spotless and blameless. I guess the reason why their story sounded a bit “off” was because John decided to marry Monique while his original wife was still unmarried. The best recourse would have been to win his original wife back, whatever the cost. Unless ofcourse she did remarry then it would appear that John blew his chances with making it right with his wife and winning her over to Christ.
If his unbelieving original wife did remarry, i believe John would be free to remarry as well. I dont want to be judgemental or anything but to say that the most honorable recourse was to marry Monique while his original wife was not married, that I disagree. Its like saying God Cannot fix everything.
TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN COMMENTING (HERE’S THE POST SCRIPT I INCLUDED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POST):
Due to the difficult questions that people have asked as a result of this post I am including more details about John and Monique’s situation before they got married.
John filed for annulment as early as 2002 when he didn’t know the Lord. He got denied. He was not a believer then. Yes, there were attempts to restore their marriage. Initially, when they parted ways, John’s wife was in another relationship, so the mother of his wife asked John to help fix the situation. John tried. He even lived in their in laws house to try to make it work. But still the outcome was still the same. John’s wife did not give him any hope of reconciling. She filed for an annulment in 2006. She was pregnant with her present husband’s child. In 2007, John came to the Lord. The court approved his wife’s annulment in March 2008 and she got married in 2009. John and Monique also got married in 2009.
No matter what is said here, people will still question the decisions made by John and Monique, and even myself for posting this article, and Edric and I for being the couple that mentored them. Re-marriage is such a hotly debated topic and there is no way to avoid reactions to a story like this, and so I understand why I have come under fire for this post.
For those who have thought my words to be ill-chosen and the story to be an example of how divorce and remarriage is okay, that was not my intention. Please forgive me. At the same time, I have seen John and Monique’s lives since the mess they were in. And I know that they have born fruit.
“By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.” Matthew 7:16 – 20
As I shared, but perhaps not clearly enough, we told them they were in sin from the very beginning. I also expressed that there may be limitations to the scope of their ministry if they get married because of their back ground. However, I can think of so many people in God’s word who didn’t make the best choices even after they already knew the Lord — David? Solomon? Moses? Peter? But we are still blessed by what God has done in their lives. We read about their stories in God’s Word. Do we say to ourselves, let’s copy the bad choices they made and rely on God’s grace after? I hope not!
Did David, Solomon, Moses, and Peter end well despite their bad choices? By God’s grace, yes. Sure, they should have done a lot of things better. John and Monique could’ve done a lot of things better, too. I could have done a lot of things better in my own life as well. And I’m still a work in progress.
This post isn’t about saying copy John and Monique’s wrong choices because they are turning out okay. But to say that John and Monique’s lives should NOT be used as an example of grace just because John was a divorcee and Monique used to live in with him…Shouldn’t the focus be the fruit that they are bearing now despite where they came from? Isn’t that a story that God can use to encourage those who have made their own set of bad choices verses being interpreted as a story that gives us license to make bad choices?
Nevertheless…I will be more careful in the future when I publish posts because this is a very public site and I need to be very discerning about the content I write about. And I praise God that this is a blog where clarifications and apologies can be made, and people can give their honest opinions, too. So thank you to my readers who have called out the inconsistencies and voiced their convictions. It’s very humbling to come under fire like this (and discouraging. sigh.) but I will gladly accept the criticism because writing on this site is a big responsibility and God wants me to be accountable. I shouldn’t take it lightly or ignore opinions when they are very valid. So thank you to the brave ones who commented and corrected me! And I now I’m going to move on to write other posts. You may continue the dialoguing among yourselves of course but I will now excuse myself from the discussions…
Hello everyone! I have not followed the thread till today. (Warning: this will be a long response). First, I was very touched when Joy chose to write about John and I. Our story is a sinful messy one. We don’t deserve any limelight. But I guess Joy witnessed who we were before and what we have become because of Jesus. I am blessed to have mentors like them – never gave up on us and yet gave us enough tough love. There were many times we made hard calls but at the end of the day, yes we followed their counsel. When CCF also asked us to talk in the pulpit, we knew that we would get all sorts of reaction. So before even saying yes to share our story, we carefully prayed about standing up there. We knew that sharing our story will get our fair share of mudslinging and we are prepared that not everyone can receive what God has done in our life. It was also tough for Joy to write a blog condensing 15 years of our story. Thats exactly why makes it so controversial. This is not a story that unfolds in a week or in a year but over a decade. Judging is easy after all you did not walk through what we went through.
John on several occasion tried to reconcile with his ex wife even before I came into the picture but unfortunately you cant force your spouse to love you when they entered into marriage for the wrong reason and without the Lord at the center of it all. We were not together (for 5 years!) not just physically but including the relationship because I obeyed God. It was such a surprise for me when John surrendered his life to Jesus. Within that time apart, He was still the father of my kids. So I never robbed him of his rights to spend time with our kids. His ex-wife was in a band and sang in different parts of the world. So even if it was a desire to bring her to bible study, it was a prayer God will send someone to reach out to her due to distance. The annulment was the ex-wife’s call. That is why – he got surprised when he received the approved annulment paper in March 2008.
When John and I got married, we agreed that this marriage will not be about us but about the Lord. For clarity also: CCF did not marry us. We did a civil wedding. We took a renewal of vows only after.
If someone as messed up as us, has been given a second chance by God what would you do? We knew exactly what we were to do. John and I want to serve our Lord and Savior for the rest of our lives. We have dedicated everything to the Lord: Our businesses, our family, our ministry. We understand if you cant see through us. But we will one day be accountable to God and not to people. So in the mean time, I will leave the judgement to the Lord. For now till God takes us home , we will not stop doing what we are doing: sharing Jesus to everyone that comes are way. We will still help soon to be weds and newly weds not get into the same mess we were in. We will still reach out to kids who have absentee parents experience the love of Jesus. We will still do everything to bring many people to the hope and saving grace of Jesus. Thank you for having such interesting insights. May this story bring you even more to know Jesus and not just look at our circumstance. In this story, Jesus is the main character.
Blessings to all!
Aww bravo Monique! Bravo my friend, what an amazing & heartfelt response ❤️
Hi Monique, I’ve been following this thread since the time it was posted and I was also there in ccf when you shared your testimony and to be honest, I got confused and almost walked out as i felt like the testimony was about two people legalizing something that is already illegal in the first place. Now, reading all yhe comments and your reply, i have to say or ask – what are the boble verses or biblical foundation of your decisions that led to civil wedding and then renewal of vows? I’m trying to find these in your testimony and reply but could not find any. Can you please share these with us?
Hi Monique. We are not writing our comments here as mere judgements. Judging is always being used as a line of defense by most people on fire. As Jesus warned us to be careful and be on guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees. Anybody who stands before the church to testify, and even the pastors that give messages, are all subject for examination. This is a study of God’s word and how His power manifests in our lives, since God wants us to always search for the Truth and to always reflect on it.. Whatever we do, whatever we say, everything must always be according to the Word of God. There is none in yours! Sorry but it is filled with sugarcoats. Your talk lacks integrity. You sounded like a gong or a clanging cymbal.
Dear anonymous1, I don’t think God approves of this kind of “scrutiny” and I believe you are missing the point of this blog post. Monique and John are NOT perfect. Their testimony was given because they wanted to share how God can redeem mistakes and scrambled eggs. Do you seriously want to force them to “unscramble” their eggs?
While I do not know Monique and John personally, nor do I agree with the decision they made, I am not about to continuously call them out on this. They are bearing fruit and who are we to say that what they do AT PRESENT isn’t according to God’s word? I would encourage you to just let God handle this as He knows their hearts better than we do.
I want to quote what this site says with regards to the topic of divorce and remarriage: A divorced and/or remarried believer should not feel any less loved by God, even if the divorce and/or remarriage is not covered under the possible exception clause of Matthew 19:9. God often uses even the sinful disobedience of Christians to accomplish great good.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html#ixzz3Z9m6hMJi
Wow, if you say you are not judging, then what it is that you’re doing? Based on your tone, it doesn’t seem like you are acting out of love or concern for any of the parties involved in this article. What is the point of throwing out all these verses and pointing out how righteous your interpretation is, if you don’t care that you’re hurting someone you don’t even know? Joy and Monique have shared their lives and allowed themselves to be vulnerable and this is how you receive it?
Have your brought anything reconciliatory into this discussion? If Monique were your close friend or relative, would you be talking to her in this manner? Do you really think someone will be inspired to change their life based on a random, callous comment on a website?
It’s so easy to hide behind anonymity here on the internet — which it also makes it so easy to cast opinions from a protected ivory tower.
Anonymous1, You are indeed judging.. And the tone or your words -dripping with so much sarcasm.. So self-righteous.. so unchristian-like. Tsk.tsk.
Matthew 19:9 says: I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
How truly BLESSED I am to have followed this thread. It delights me that so many are truly studying God’s word and doing their best to follow its precepts! Now to all the biblical scholars out there, correct me if I am wrong but on the basis of Matthew 19:9, John and Monique’s marriage was not sinful because the exception to the rule of adultery is sexual immorality. Since John’s first wife committed sexual immorality, then John did not commit adultery when he divorced his wife and married Monique.
In addition, 1 Corinthians 7:15 says that “…if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.” It was the first wife who filed for annulment. So technically, she was the one who “left” John, not only in the physical sense, but also from a legal standpoint.
Again, please correct me if I am wrong but I am thinking that, on the basis of the 2 verses sited above, the way the circumstances played out may be God’s way of RELEASING John and freeing him to marry Monique.
I am not trying to JUSTIFY John and Monique’s decision or to help Joy in any way. I am not even a member of CCF nor do I attend services there. These were just the verses that came to mind when I first read Joy’s article and the reactions to it the other day.
HOWEVER, Joy, I hope that CCF will really exercise more care in making decisions. CCF may have grown to such a remarkable size but the church leaders must not allow any of it to get to their heads. Now, more than ever, they must pray for God’s wisdom and not rely on their own. Sometimes, things might seem right in our eyes. It might make perfect sense. It might appear to be the best scenario. But if it is not in line with God’s word, then the answer is still NO. And we must abide by it no matter the cost. It is good that in the case above, CCF did not marry John and Monique. There was a controversial case a few years back of CCF marrying a couple without their parents’ blessing. In fact, they were married despite the parents’ strong objections. This is one example of using human wisdom and not God’s wisdom.
Now you, your family, the church leaders, and all of us are all humans. We are all sinful and in need of God’s constant grace and forgiveness. But we must all exercise great caution in sensitive matters and not make rash decisions as it might (and have) caused others to stumble. As you are in the ministry of bringing people to Christ, I’m sure the last thing you want is to cause people to drift away.
Lastly, I want to encourage you to keep pressing on. Your blog has been a blessing to me and to so many others. Do not let this controversial post keep you from letting your light shine. God allows things to happen for your good and for his glory. He is preparing you for even greater things.
To those who have doubts if Jesus is God, the most famous and accepted John 3:16 verse is enough explanation. Take it or leave it.
Joy, I hope next time you will be more careful when explaining details in your post. This issue is very sensitive, Lack of biblical references and details particularly about marriage may lead some readers to confusion especially the young people or those that do not really read the bible. Your post is such an inspiration to many. Your sharing has a big impact to your listeners. I am one of your blog followers and I have learned a lot from you and it really helped my marriage improve. However in this particular issue, there might be very different opinions and explanations about Monique’s story. Their testimony might raise a lot of questions and doubts that is difficult to explain especially to children who heard it. It’s always best to share about what is ideal and stories that has no in between scenarios or scenarios that may lead to doubts because ideal scenarios will surely enlighten and inspire readers and listeners like what you and your team shares during retreats or marriage talks, it does wonders to a lot of couple and families. Monique’s story is questioned by many because it’s not really clear or safe to assume if its adulterous or not. Only God knows and he is the one to judge them but like I said lack of biblical reference and details may lead to a thinking that marriage can be done again and again. If a person can divorce and marry for the second time then will it be morally possible and reasonable that he can do it again and again just because the partner is sexually immoral and their love bear fruit, this is not ideal but very common nowadays. I don’t want to judge Monique, we should mediate about it day and night. I comment here because I have a growing concern about marriage issues. Monique and John have incredible transformation I can see that through your post and their blog posts however this marriage story of Monique, I do not agree because of its complicated nature that does not really conform in most of the bible verses about marriage but again I dont want to judge so i’m leaving it behind. It’s between them and God. Continue writing and sharing, it has been a blessing to me and to many!
Just got home from our d-group outing, it’s very interesting that my leader discussed John 17, in this book the deity of Jesus Christ is so clear, specially in verse 5. We also listen to Ravi Z. Preaching entitled God’s Blueprint in your Life. In the first part about humility he mentioned that there are people who just couldn’t comprehend that our Savior allowed himself to be nailed on the cross, a picture of God who humbled himself. Because of a comment here questioning the deity of Christ, It adds excitement to me to know more about my Lord.
I assure you: Whatever you bind on earth is already bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is already loosed in heaven
i was present in ccf during their testimony, but after your blog i had to read monique and john ong’s script in ccf’s website to compare- why did the couple omit the truth that John was married when they met? the way they projected their speech was that John was single but promiscuous (which stated “,ended relationship”) and she later became the wife…. i am really uncomfortable with this, I believe that they are a work in progress and they should not have testified especially if the truth behind their relationship will be sugar-coated, and how they come together is being justified. Hindi tama.
People, wake up. This is reality. This are issues that are being dealt with by churches today. The job of the church is to counsel but the decision comes down to the persons themselves. To accept “sinners” and lead them to Christ and let them bear fruit is also part of the job pastors and leaders have to do. To condemn couples who have chosen to do controversial of not biblically inappropriate decisions would also be so wrong to do. The more logical and Christlike thing to extend to these people is still grace and acceptance. That way, God can continuously work in their spiritual journey. Letting God alone to deal with their weakness or errors if there is any. To look at the speck in our neighbors’ eyes in issues like this is not our job. Focus on your own speck and let God be God. Thanks Joy, no worries here, I am a mom and this post does not bother me if my child reads it. I am secured with the values i will teach them and also open their eyes to reality. I am a wife an is also not threatened that my marriage will be any less meaningful in the eyes of God if He allows other people to remarry.
Dear Madam, kindly this is STUPENDOUS problem of remarrying and divorce that the thousand million christianity is facing. You’re church hasn’t got the solution to this problem. Sadly the only solution with christianity is Hallelujah!! Hallelujah!! ARe you lunatic? The people needs to remarry and divorce but you don’t allow it and you say Hallelujah? THis is the problem when you bring God to the level of human. God will punish you for it. You don’t listen and you simmer in your own soup! 🙂
@Bobby, sorry for delay in reply because I was somewhere in vacation earlier in some sunny and nice place! 🙂 Allow me but you “first things first” sounded very selfish and close-minded. If someone has got the idea, correct information or data, answer whatever.. would you rather see that person keep it for himself and not share it?? Anyway, I’m just going to quote what the master Jesus said.. “SEEING THEY SEE NOT, HEARING THEY HEAR NOT, NEITHER DO THEY UNDERSTAND.” They already made up their mind. But all the comments I made above is for those who have eyes to see, ears to hear! I want everybody to see that look you’re not understanding yoru book or you’re mis-interpreting it. Please if you have time to read it carefully and maybe I am wrong and I want you to re-program me as much as I want to re-program you.
Hi All,
Good day!
I just happen to be in this website. And I just have to say WOW… The passion in the discussion is just too much to the point that I find it either amusing or confusing and none of it has won souls for Christ.
But as an anonymous commentator who will be accountable to God for what I will be stating in this website today, let me share my own opinion. And I hope that somehow, God will still be honored.
My parents came from the same background (dad was married, mom was the mistress). It was messy (I won’t go into details because this is not about me). But despite my family’s sin and my own sin, I have receive so much grace from God. Since I receive so much grace from God, should I not then extend the same grace (or at least understanding) to this 2 people who decided to do the next best thing in God’s eyes?
Yes, he was not able to reconcile with his first wife. Yes, their relationship started out bad. The situation was not resolve the way it should have been resolve. It didn’t go the way people believe it should have gone. But who are we (who am I) to judge them? At the end of our lives, we will all give an accounting of our own choice to God and not to man. By the blood of Jesus alone can we enter heaven and not because we were able to follow the correct script that should have been followed.
Am I using God’s grace as a license to sin? NO!
As Joy stated in the article clearly, these 2 people are trying their best to tell people not to follow their example. That there is a better way for marriage. But as for the first marriage, John and Monique decided to do the next Godliest thing they can do. The first wife refuse reconciliation. They already have their own children. Should John continue to pursue his first wife who is already made up her mind to marry to another man when he has obligations to Monique? I’m not married nor am I as well verse as the pastors. But I do know what it’s like to be the 2nd family, to be a child of a married man and his mistress. There are consequences. And it is only by God’s grace can a messy life be turned for the better.
Monique and John’s situation doesn’t follow the ideal script. But in my own opinion (considering that the first wife already made up he mind and they already have a child), getting married was probably the next best decision that they can do. Was it God honoring? It could have been better if John was able to reconcile with the first wife.
But in my own imperfect opinion, I think that God was still honored when 2 broken people decided to begin again and start it right this time. Now, they are sharing their story to people who needs guidance in their marriage.
This world as broken up with sin. The ideal married life is very rare (Thank you Joy for being very open about your marriage).
And there are just things that can become so mangled up that it would be difficult to restore it. But God is above our circumstances.
Final thought:
Don’t put God in a Box. Just because things didn’t go the way it should have been done doesn’t mean that God is at not at work. Other commentators has already brought in a lot of bible verses into this discussion and there’s one particularly loves to twist it. But perhaps it’s time to put Faith, hope and love into action.
Faith to believe that God is able to make something beautiful out of life’s mess even if it’s not ideal.
Hope to fight (and teach people) of how to live a Godly life (both as single and married).
Love for two broken people who are trying their best to honor God despite of their own past failures. And Love as well for all the other broken people out there who still doesn’t know Christ.
Thank you for your patience.
And I hope that when I meet Jesus, He will not be ashamed at me for having posted this comments. God Bless.
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